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noracharlesI have a hard time separating canon and fanon in my head, and when I'm inspired to write fanfic, it's usually by fic I've read, rather than canon. To me, fan fiction fandom is all about interaction, meta layers, intertextuality, discussion... It's why original slash or RPF AUs work for me, even though they have no shared canon to refer to and draw on.
But there are unwritten rules about what's okay and what's not okay to do. Personally I would feel comfortable writing a trope I had seen in at least three other fics, but I would hesitate to write an unauthorized remix or to use an OC or other unique invention by a single fan author who didn't give blanket permission, because it would invite wank.
That's why I think it's so wonderful that many authors do give blanket permission for transformative works based on their fic, and so many authors join remix challenges. It's fascinating to me to see a much more direct dialogue between two authors/works, rather than the usual diffuse filtering through fandom.
I was originally planning to write about some particularly interesting examples of remixing for![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
the_comfy_chair, but I don't have the energy for it and I'm concerned that I wouldn't be able to find a non-wanky, fic-focused angle on it. So I'm putting this here instead.
My favorite remix in this year's remix redux challenge is Motives (Hold the Lantern High Remix by![[archiveofourown.org profile]](https://p.dreamwidth.org/b164c54b26e4/-/archiveofourown.org/favicon.ico)
wintercreek, an SGA fic. I don't think it's the remix which works best as a stand-alone fic, or the remix which best complements the original, or the remix which best transforms the original, but it is the remix which best debates the original.
The original fic is a character exploration piece which examines the relationship between Teyla and John. It seems to have been written rather early in the show, and it re-transmits the problematical treatment the show gives the Teyla character. Now, I don't know the author or the author's motives for writing the fic, or for writing the fic in this particular way. For whatever reason, the fic comes across to me as concentrated ooginess, and if it is meant to highlight the problematical aspects to call attention to them in a satirical way, it fails in that.
The remix challenges the original in several ways. It punctures John as the personification of the White Man and Teyla as the personification of the Noble Savage by giving John more personal connections, with Teyla being an important person in his life similar to the other important people in his life.
It moves the focus to John and admits to the focus being on John, where the original seemed to say it was about Teyla, but had its focus on John anyway.
And most explicitly, it has this -
I think it's awesome how readable and charming the remix is as a fic on its own, and how it comments so intelligently on the original fic. It would probably have been easier to just write a mean and exaggerated parody of the original, rather than leading by example.
I was pleased to see the gracious comment the author of the original fic left. The original author points out and praises many details in the remix, thanks the remixer politely and warmly, and neatly avoids any mention of the anti-racist and feminist content. No complaining, no accusations, no defensiveness: I have a lot of respect for that, and wish that I will be able to handle myself that well next time someone calls me on something directly or indirectly.
(For all I know, the author of the original fic entirely agrees with the remixer's version. They could have written the original fic as a parody, or they could have evolved in their understanding about racist stereotypes since then.)
But critical remixes don't always turn out so well. There's an open AU shared 'verse calledclan_mitchell, an SG-1 'verse. I'm not very interested in SG-1, so I haven't read it. From what I've gleaned it's about building a power community, where smart, ambitious and driven characters use their connections to get ahead and do good.
That happens to be one of my favorite tropes. It's one of the reasons I love Lois McMaster Bujold's Vorkosigan books, and many borderline Gary Stu "Harry Potter is sorted into Slytherin" fics, and certain "Atlantis becomes independent from Earth and starts a Pegasus brain-drain" fics.
But even I, as much as I love and adore the power community building thing, can see that a community which gets its power by its members working together and supporting each other will tend to have community interest vs. individual interest conflicts. Where do you draw the line between encouraging and helping a community member be all she can be and achieve her ambitions and pacing her or putting emotional or social pressure on her to have higher or better ambitions?
So, long story short, one of the original writers of the shared AU 'verse encourages fans to write and fulfill prompts for fics taking place in the shared 'verse. One person wishes for a fic dealing with individual vs. community conflict, two people fill it. One of the fills is a look at group dynamics, about individuals feeling pressured to change their personal ambitions to keep them in line with the community's ambitions on their behalf. Untitled Clan Mitchell group pressure fic. ETA: Cap of the discussion, I don't have one of the comment fic itself. Another ETA: This cap has the fic, but not all the comments.
Not having read any of the other fics in the shared 'verse I can't agree or disagree with the critique the fic levels, but I can say that I think the way it is told (by a semi-outsider, while drunk) works for me, and that it seems completely reasonable and the same sort of thing I've often thought about my most favorite power community fics. It is rather heavy-handed and uses tell not show, but for a comment fic challenge piece written to fulfill a specific prompt it's fine.
The reason I say it did not turn out well is the way the original authors respond (see linked thread). I'm having Anne Rice/Diana Gabaldon second hand embarrassment squick, but at the same time it's sort of hilariously awful.
Fellow fan writers: Remixes are wonderful, and having a remix written for one of your fics can be the best, most detailed, most flattering kind of reader interaction ever. But you do not control the way a reader reads your fic with your telepathic mindbeam. You can not control the way a reader reads your fic no matter how carefully chosen your words. No matter how much a reader loves your fic and agrees with its entire premise, you can not stop the reader from living in the world, and therefore seeing your fic in a context.
If you write a fic about family, even if a reader agrees entirely that the family in your fic is perfect, the reader can still be reminded of imperfect families in real life and in other fiction, and choose to explore the concept of "family" through the lens of your fiction, or your fiction through the lens of their concept of "family".
The unwritten rules of fanfic fandom mostly protect you from unauthorized remixes. Don't invite other people to write in your 'verse or to remix your fic if you don't want them to. If you do invite them, and they do write something which challenges your work, a good idea would be to either say nothing, or to be generous and gracious like the remixed author I mentioned above was.
ETA after I saw this entry had been metafandomed: When I talk about what fan authors "should" do, what I mean is that this is the sort of behavior I personally aspire to have, and which I admire in others. I don't think anyone who doesn't do what I say fans "should" is doing fandom wrong or are bad people.
I'd be glad to know what you think fandom norms are (if there even is anything like a consensus in your corner of fandom), but I'm not particularly interested in explaining or defending my own ideals, because they're only relevant for my own behavior.
But there are unwritten rules about what's okay and what's not okay to do. Personally I would feel comfortable writing a trope I had seen in at least three other fics, but I would hesitate to write an unauthorized remix or to use an OC or other unique invention by a single fan author who didn't give blanket permission, because it would invite wank.
That's why I think it's so wonderful that many authors do give blanket permission for transformative works based on their fic, and so many authors join remix challenges. It's fascinating to me to see a much more direct dialogue between two authors/works, rather than the usual diffuse filtering through fandom.
I was originally planning to write about some particularly interesting examples of remixing for
the_comfy_chair, but I don't have the energy for it and I'm concerned that I wouldn't be able to find a non-wanky, fic-focused angle on it. So I'm putting this here instead.My favorite remix in this year's remix redux challenge is Motives (Hold the Lantern High Remix by
The original fic is a character exploration piece which examines the relationship between Teyla and John. It seems to have been written rather early in the show, and it re-transmits the problematical treatment the show gives the Teyla character. Now, I don't know the author or the author's motives for writing the fic, or for writing the fic in this particular way. For whatever reason, the fic comes across to me as concentrated ooginess, and if it is meant to highlight the problematical aspects to call attention to them in a satirical way, it fails in that.
The remix challenges the original in several ways. It punctures John as the personification of the White Man and Teyla as the personification of the Noble Savage by giving John more personal connections, with Teyla being an important person in his life similar to the other important people in his life.
It moves the focus to John and admits to the focus being on John, where the original seemed to say it was about Teyla, but had its focus on John anyway.
And most explicitly, it has this -
"I don't think she likes it when you refer to her that way, Rodney." John drags himself into a more-or-less upright position. "Aside from the Earth-centric cultural reference, it's disrespectful and reduces her to a sexualized stereotype."- as well as many other interesting and cool things to say.
I think it's awesome how readable and charming the remix is as a fic on its own, and how it comments so intelligently on the original fic. It would probably have been easier to just write a mean and exaggerated parody of the original, rather than leading by example.
I was pleased to see the gracious comment the author of the original fic left. The original author points out and praises many details in the remix, thanks the remixer politely and warmly, and neatly avoids any mention of the anti-racist and feminist content. No complaining, no accusations, no defensiveness: I have a lot of respect for that, and wish that I will be able to handle myself that well next time someone calls me on something directly or indirectly.
(For all I know, the author of the original fic entirely agrees with the remixer's version. They could have written the original fic as a parody, or they could have evolved in their understanding about racist stereotypes since then.)
But critical remixes don't always turn out so well. There's an open AU shared 'verse called
clan_mitchell, an SG-1 'verse. I'm not very interested in SG-1, so I haven't read it. From what I've gleaned it's about building a power community, where smart, ambitious and driven characters use their connections to get ahead and do good. That happens to be one of my favorite tropes. It's one of the reasons I love Lois McMaster Bujold's Vorkosigan books, and many borderline Gary Stu "Harry Potter is sorted into Slytherin" fics, and certain "Atlantis becomes independent from Earth and starts a Pegasus brain-drain" fics.
But even I, as much as I love and adore the power community building thing, can see that a community which gets its power by its members working together and supporting each other will tend to have community interest vs. individual interest conflicts. Where do you draw the line between encouraging and helping a community member be all she can be and achieve her ambitions and pacing her or putting emotional or social pressure on her to have higher or better ambitions?
So, long story short, one of the original writers of the shared AU 'verse encourages fans to write and fulfill prompts for fics taking place in the shared 'verse. One person wishes for a fic dealing with individual vs. community conflict, two people fill it. One of the fills is a look at group dynamics, about individuals feeling pressured to change their personal ambitions to keep them in line with the community's ambitions on their behalf. Untitled Clan Mitchell group pressure fic. ETA: Cap of the discussion, I don't have one of the comment fic itself. Another ETA: This cap has the fic, but not all the comments.
Not having read any of the other fics in the shared 'verse I can't agree or disagree with the critique the fic levels, but I can say that I think the way it is told (by a semi-outsider, while drunk) works for me, and that it seems completely reasonable and the same sort of thing I've often thought about my most favorite power community fics. It is rather heavy-handed and uses tell not show, but for a comment fic challenge piece written to fulfill a specific prompt it's fine.
The reason I say it did not turn out well is the way the original authors respond (see linked thread). I'm having Anne Rice/Diana Gabaldon second hand embarrassment squick, but at the same time it's sort of hilariously awful.
Fellow fan writers: Remixes are wonderful, and having a remix written for one of your fics can be the best, most detailed, most flattering kind of reader interaction ever. But you do not control the way a reader reads your fic with your telepathic mindbeam. You can not control the way a reader reads your fic no matter how carefully chosen your words. No matter how much a reader loves your fic and agrees with its entire premise, you can not stop the reader from living in the world, and therefore seeing your fic in a context.
If you write a fic about family, even if a reader agrees entirely that the family in your fic is perfect, the reader can still be reminded of imperfect families in real life and in other fiction, and choose to explore the concept of "family" through the lens of your fiction, or your fiction through the lens of their concept of "family".
The unwritten rules of fanfic fandom mostly protect you from unauthorized remixes. Don't invite other people to write in your 'verse or to remix your fic if you don't want them to. If you do invite them, and they do write something which challenges your work, a good idea would be to either say nothing, or to be generous and gracious like the remixed author I mentioned above was.
ETA after I saw this entry had been metafandomed: When I talk about what fan authors "should" do, what I mean is that this is the sort of behavior I personally aspire to have, and which I admire in others. I don't think anyone who doesn't do what I say fans "should" is doing fandom wrong or are bad people.
I'd be glad to know what you think fandom norms are (if there even is anything like a consensus in your corner of fandom), but I'm not particularly interested in explaining or defending my own ideals, because they're only relevant for my own behavior.
(no subject)
Date: 2010-06-07 11:17 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2010-06-07 11:25 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2010-06-07 11:53 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2010-06-07 12:15 pm (UTC)I will say that the The General and Dr. Sheppard 'verse fics were triggering for me. Attempting to read them, I thought they read like horror rather than romance. Reading Helenish's remix where she addressed everything that freaked me out so badly, and soothed me by showing two non-conforming characters having a happy ending despite living in that society helped me very much, so even if I weren't philosophically strongly pro remix culture and transformative works (and consider the fandom rules against them hypocritical) I would be personally grateful to her for writing it.
Engaging critically with a text in a transformative work is not just about intellectual games or a creative hobby, for me, for many fans, it's about engaging critically with real life as reflected in fiction, and I think that's also true of the two examples in my post. It is vitally necessary for me to be able to have those conversations, but sometimes they are so painful that they need to be had through fic.
(no subject)
Date: 2010-06-07 01:04 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2010-06-07 01:36 pm (UTC)Ugh. Too risky.
I do feel sorry for both of the original authors, because it's clear that the critique in the comment fic as well as the praise from the people who read it and offered feedback completely blindsided them, and hurt them deeply.
I also feel sorry for the fans of the 'verse who did comment and have now been told they were cruel and/or unable to read - maybe they truly love that 'verse because of the way it treats group dynamics, and now they're shocked and skeeved out to learn that the angsty subtext is completely unintentional.
Real emotions and real life experiences being invalidated all around :-(
But that's the risk we take when we choose to engage in discussions about sensitive topics, and for most of us most of the time it's worth the potential pain. ♥ fandom.
(no subject)
Date: 2010-06-07 12:50 pm (UTC)To me, fan fiction fandom is all about interaction, meta layers, intertextuality, discussion... It's why original slash or RPF AUs work for me, even though they have no shared canon to refer to and draw on.
I hadn't ever put this into words for myself, but yes, this very much. Original Character fic that is fannish in form is as enjoyable to me as fanfic. But then I'll read fic for canons I have no familiarity with too.
The unwritten rules of fanfic fandom mostly protect you from unauthorized remixes.
I'm conflicted about this, because I think a large amount of fandom expects that this is true, but I wish it wasn't, and not just because I think Take Clothes Off is fabulous and the original is contrary to my taste. I write unauthorized remixes all the time. The last fic I posted is a direct remix of a particular story and I'm sure no one could ever name it, not even the author. The themes and the tropes that the catalyst fic was repeating from other fics and distilling down was what I was working with anyway, not the particulars. Sometimes it is the particulars that need addressing, like with Take Clothes Off, and I would seriously hesitate to do it, but I have been sorely tempted.
I agree with everything you said about the Clan Mitchell situation. I have read some of the source texts in that verse, and I really enjoyed the stories, though I don't have a big emotional attachment to the characters. I thought both fills to the prompt were interesting and say interesting things about the source (and maybe about fandom too). The comment situation makes me think shared universes work more smoothly with a shared setting rather than loaned out characters.
"Oh no, not again" said the bowl of petunias
Date: 2010-06-15 10:28 pm (UTC)Hi, by the way, I'm here from metafandom.
But: The problem was not the existence of the remix, the problem was where the remix was put. Clan-critical fic has been written- by the original authors themselves, who included things like a character getting disowned for not living up to the family standards, or the main character moving away from home not once but twice because it was too stifling. Clan-critical fic has also been written by other Clan-fans, and approved of by one or both original authors.
The main problem with this remix in particular is that when I made the prompt, I was unaware (though had I read the original post more closely, I should have noticed) that this promptmeme was intended as a "please help the original authors' squee along so they can keep writing Clan-canon"-meme. As it turns out, writing "good people who don't like the Clan" fic isn't likely to do that, thus hurt feelings and an extended f-w nightmare.
I mean, there are other things that bother me about this ongoing discussion. Like the fact that the healing of relationships is exponentially more difficult when done under the scrutiny of the public eye, which has been personally frustrating to me. Or the fact that Slybrarian is continually assumed to be the only one to have replied to the prompt. But that first one ignores the context- and isn't context what remixes are all about?
Sorry, I guess I'm just tired of talking about this. But I wanted to make sure those points were brought up.
Re: "Oh no, not again" said the bowl of petunias
Date: 2010-06-15 11:12 pm (UTC)I get that the relevant thing for you is your relationship with the friends you share a 'verse with, and that the reason the discussion blew up like it did was hurt feelings over unsolicited critique in what was supposed to be a supportive and cheerleading space. I'm sorry to be poking at a sensitive and private thing like that.
As an outsider, I'm really only interested in the remix as a remix, and the original authors' reception of the remix as a critique. I know that that's a very minor thing, and almost completely irrelevant to the argument which took place in the comm. But I'm not a member of the comm, and it's interesting to me.
Re: "Oh no, not again" said the bowl of petunias
Date: 2010-06-16 02:27 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2010-06-16 12:51 am (UTC)But mostly I'm just rudely commenting to say:
> The unwritten rules of fanfic fandom mostly protect you from unauthorized
> remixes.
ME TOO.
(and now I'm wondering if I could reread any of faceofcathy's fic and see if I could figure out who she's remixing - but I'm actually pants at that sort of thing, so I'll just giggle in general.)
(no subject)
Date: 2010-06-16 08:01 am (UTC)I assume that most of the time when people write unauthorized remixes, they do try to make them less recognizable, but sometimes I see authors mention their suspicions that they've been remixed anonymously, or someone will mention that it happened to one of their friends. Most often when they're trying to figure out whether to report the remix as plagiarism.
(no subject)
Date: 2010-06-17 01:02 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2010-06-17 04:04 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2010-06-17 04:13 pm (UTC)