noracharles: (Default)
Nora Charles ([personal profile] noracharles) wrote2009-07-01 06:10 pm

Forced, arranged marriage fic written from the moral pov of the betrayers/abusers.

The fic is Little Bit of Inertia, Little Bit of Momentum by [profile] juice817, written for the Supernatural and J-Squared Big Bang. It's an RPS AU, which means it's an m/m fic about original characters, and the characters have been "cast" with the names and likenesses of real people.

[Edited to add, June 3rd. When I first read this fic, I came across some triggering content. I was upset, and went on a long ride to clear my head. I realized why some elements of the fic had disturbed me, and I tagged my bookmark of it on delicious with betrayal.of.trust involuntarily.being.tied.up involuntarily.being.shut.in.an.enclosed.space abduction involuntarily.being.held.down noncon/dubcon emotional.manipulation because those elements can be triggering to other people than me, and I thought someone might find the tags useful. I also commented on the fic annoucements with a greyed-out warning that the fic contained betrayal.of.trust involuntarily.being.tied.up involuntarily.being.shut.in.an.enclosed.space abduction involuntarily.being.held.down, I think. I no longer have the original comment. Now that might or might not be useful to other readers with similar triggers, but the fic was still bothering me. In an attempt to get it out of my subconscious, I wrote this entry which looks only at the triggering content, and which casts everything in the fic in a different light. It is a purely emotional reaction to triggering content, and not an attempt at a critical reading as some have assumed. It is a true and genuine reaction, but not the typical reaction or the reaction the author intended their readers to have. I welcome comments and discussion, but I will not put up with anyone harassing anyone else in my journal.]

The Ackles and the Padalecki family are good friends, and they introduce their two young sons, Jensen and Jared, to each other. Jensen does not want to go, and resists passively all the way to the remote cabin where the meeting takes place. Once there, he goes along with it so as not to hurt Jared's feelings.

The boys are brought together every summer. Jared seems oblivious to the arranged relationship, but Jensen is initially willing. One day they go walking in the forest surrounding the remote cabin, and get lost. This makes it clear that the cabin is indeed, very remote.

Jensen changes his mind about the arranged relationship when he learns that Jared has a girl friend. He's in college and living alone, and he cuts off all contact with the Padaleckis, and most of the contact with his own family. He refuses to spend his vacations with them, and screens his mail and calls.

Then Jensen's trusted friend and assistant goes behind his back and conspires with his family, to let his family know what his schedule is, and to make sure no one will miss him over the summer by clearing his schedule and telling his colleagues he's going on vacation.

Jensen's mom tells him he must come to the remote cabin, and he gets one chance to go voluntarily. Jensen refuses to go.

Jensen and Jared's brothers abduct Jensen, tie him up and shut him in the covered back of a pick-up truck and transport him to the remote cabin. Jensen's mom had arranged the whole thing, and is only angry that they didn't tie him up in the cab and put a seat-belt on him.

Everyone starts emotionally manipulating Jensen, and guilt-tripping him about cutting off contact. He can't avoid spending time alone with Jared. Jared is no longer oblivious to the arranged relationship, he very much wants it. Jared very much likes seeing Jensen hold a cute baby, Jared's nephew who looks as if he were Jared's son, and Jensen's sister tells Jensen that she will surrogate for him and Jared once they are together.

Jensen gets drunk, alone in a tee-pee with Jared (I don't know how he gets drunk, I was kind of reading between my fingers at this point), and when he wakes up, woozy and confused, Jared is forcibly holding him down, using a blanket and his body weight. Jensen very clearly says "Get off me", but Jared does not. Instead he symbolically consummates the arranged relationship with a kiss.

Scary, scary stuff. I especially found the idea of Jensen's support network outside of the family betraying and manipulating him viscerally horrifying. In the fic, Jensen is living alone and has a good career as a chiropractor, so there's no reason that he couldn't escape if he really wanted to, though it would mean saying goodbye to his family forever, except of course for the obvious reason that the relationship was arranged by the author and Jensen's family and his friend have only the vaguest of reasons within the text to act the way they do.

In real life, this sort of thing happens all the time, and the young people trying to escape arranged marriages, quite apart from the constant guilt-tripping and emotional manipulation, and the knowledge that people they trust may turn against them for their own good or for the honor of their family, don't have the resources to live independently in hiding. In western countries with laws that value individual rights over society's rights they can go to the authorities, if they can get away long enough. Then they just have to hope and pray no one discovers their plans before the can arrange their escape, and live in fear for the rest of their lives.

I find it very interesting and unexpected to read a fic written from the moral stand point of the betrayers/abusers, rather than the victim. The author presents it as a morally unambiguous romance:
"Warnings/Spoilers: Schmoop. Childishness and obliviousness too.
Summary: Jensen has been avoiding his former best friend Jared for nearly ten years, but with their moms being best friends too, it couldn't last forever. When Jensen is roped into a summer in the woods, he learns that things were maybe not what he'd thought way back when. And that maybe you really can go home again.
"


The ending is happy, because once the relationship has been consummated and there is no escape, Jensen is "home again". The romance is "schmoopy". Someone is exhibiting "childishness" - is it Jensen for refusing to go to the cabin, both as a kid and as an adult, or is it the abduction which the brothers overdid in a childish way? I don't know, but "childishness and obliviousness too", by the way the two nouns are paired seems to indicate to me that the one who is childish is Jensen, since Jared is the one who is oblivious to his destiny for much of the fic.

I was scared and upset by the fic, though less so than I would have been had the author used canon characters or spent more time building up a relationship between Jensen and me, the reader. I firmly believe that an author should be absolutely free to write their metadata any way they please, with or without warnings, with or without details. And [profile] juice817 did attach warnings to their fic, just representing a different, equally valid reading.

Normally, I would not have done or said anything, but after the warning debate I've been following and taking part in, I have carefully considered my reasons for considering warnings voluntary, and for not asking for warnings, and I have also carefully considered how warnings can be useful to others. Perhaps in a case such as this, where the author has no reason to consider their fic horrifying noncon but I do, it would be a service to others for me to warn them.

At first I bookmarked the fic on delicious.com, but then I also thought it might be a good idea to put a warning in a comment to the master post. Then I decided it would be more helpful in the link from the comm. I don't know. I went for a long ride to clear my mind, but the fic just kept eating at me. I hope writing this entry about it will have moved it out of my subconscious, so I don't have to deal with it emotionally or in my sleep over the next several days.

ETA June 2nd: my comment with warnings has been deleted. I don't understand why, since I had greyed them out, but perhaps they hurt the feelings of the author?
annella: (Default)

[personal profile] annella 2009-07-02 11:07 pm (UTC)(link)
I came across your review for my Big Bang story in del.icio.us and confess to finding myself incredibly confused by the following.

"I would have liked the story better if it had been genderfuck, I think. Jensen being a queer fangirl but not being into Daneel sexually was just confusing."

Could you please explain why it was confusing to you that a gay man was not sexually attracted to a woman? I ... I just don't get it.
annella: (Default)

[personal profile] annella 2009-07-03 11:25 am (UTC)(link)
I honestly don't know how I could have written him more as a guy. I'm sorry you couldn't see him as he was meant to be.
aquaeri: My nose is being washed by my cat (Default)

[personal profile] aquaeri 2009-07-03 04:35 am (UTC)(link)
I don't have any good answers. That's a horrible situation to be in.
aquaeri: My nose is being washed by my cat (Default)

[personal profile] aquaeri 2009-07-03 08:38 am (UTC)(link)
No, I meant that it's horrible when you read (or otherwise take part in) something and you have a completely different interpretation of it than the other people involved. I have a similar reaction to group activities when I just have to trust someone else "that it'll be lots of fun, really". I'm less likely to have fun when I feel I'm being asked to trust them for no reason.

(Anonymous) 2009-07-02 11:48 pm (UTC)(link)
ETA June 2nd: my comment with warnings has been deleted. I don't understand why, since I had greyed them out, but perhaps they hurt the feelings of the author?

The mod rightfully removed it. And, yes, I'm commenting anon because I'm friends with the author whose fic you just butchered because you didn't understand a single word of it or where it came from and I have no intention of bringing your warning-wanky attention on me.

I'm sorry for you, really, because you must live in a really, really scary world if something this schmoopy is enough to rattle you.

(Anonymous) 2009-07-03 12:33 am (UTC)(link)
Oh, additionally, you really need to keep your arguments straight because this "I find it very interesting and unexpected to read a fic written from the moral stand point of the betrayers/abusers, rather than the victim" makes no sense in the context you yourself presented because the fic was written in Jensen's POV. Jensen, whom you paint as the "victim" in this whole charade of yours, not the "abuser."

You obviously didn't read the story you just critiqued, which is just rude and mean, just like all your backhanded compliments on your del.icio.us bookmarks. Slamming someone's hard work indirectly, and in a very public way where the authors can just stumble upon your comments? That's just lame. You have a problem with someone's story, you either shut up about it if you don't have anything constructive to say or you comment to them in a well-thought-out manner and then, maybe, your misguided assumptions can be put to rest.

(Anonymous) 2009-07-02 11:55 pm (UTC)(link)
I too have no interest in being brought into any possible wank so I'll be commenting anon.

I am completely surprised that something so fluff filled disturbed you in such a way. I'm confused as to how you assumed that spending summers together meant that they had an arranged marriage, and it's apparent to me that this misunderstanding at the beginning deeply, deeply affected the story.

It's should be obvious why the comment was removed. The warnings had nothing to do with the story whatsoever and if you had a problem with it, it is quite simple to contact the author with your concerns.

To think that you hurt the feeling of the author is rather big of you to assume that you have such power. You only confused the writer, who has made assumptions about the story.

Like the commenter said above me: You must live in a scary world where two families spending their summers together means arranged marriages.

[identity profile] xphoenixrising.livejournal.com 2009-07-03 03:34 pm (UTC)(link)
I did not have a problem with the way the writer had written her metadata, and did not see any reason to ask her to change it. I thought commenting with my reactions, and also making sure to spoiler-proof them was the least offensive way to act

And yet that was basically what you were saying with your comment, that you were commenting to "say" that her warning information was wrong and you had no right whatsoever to do so. If you wanted to be least offensive, I would think the obvious route would be to message the author, since adding such warnings were completely uncalled for and were completely off the mark.

Tying Jensen up is what disturbed you? Many readers found the situation funny and I myself read the passage and was amused by it as well, as I found no indication whatsoever that it was a "betraying of trust". I highly doubt Jensen believed that being kidnapped by his family members who were concerned and wanting to speak to him would happen again in the future.

Have you ever read the Twilight book series or at least heard summaries of it? The story is written by a love-struck character and exclusively shows her own thoughts and contemplation.

While many readers find her POV as showing this girl has low self-esteem, etc, the author was very right in saying that it's a skewed perspective and not an entirely accurate interpretation of how the other characters are because it's her point of view and how she interprets things.

For example, her love interest, a vampire named Edward, is written as this perfect, wonderful character, yet this is not how Edward actually is, just Bella's view on her "true love".

[identity profile] xphoenixrising.livejournal.com 2009-07-03 05:08 pm (UTC)(link)
[livejournal.com profile] juice817 is very good at properly identifying her warnings, as are a very large majority of this fandom. Contacting the author about the additional warnings you found that should be included would have been the proper and respectful way. A simple act of fandom courtesy.

The majority of people reading this story do not have such triggers and rarely do I find slash fans "triggered" by being tied up in sexual encounters, which I find more serious than simply being forced to talk to your family.

I'm very sorry for you then that you seem to have gone through some trauma in your past that would instill such a fear or have has someone you cared about go through a similar situation. Perhaps you should've stopped reading if you were so frightened/disturbed by the content, as much of the slash out there contains light bondage (they are guys after all). I shudder to think how you would've felt if Jensen were a girl, as more people would find that situation more offensive.

I guess this means you shouldn't read the story that I'm writing!

May I suggest in the future that maybe you should stay away from slash and RPS until you familiarize yourself with fandom and most especially fandom etiquette.

All in all, to put it bluntly, I strongly suggest you move on and perhaps avoid fic from now on, as any material you find objectionable seems to bother you so much. If something as small as this situation frightens you so much… well good lord, how do you make it through Supernatural episodes? Sam tied up during Bad Day at Black Rock. Dean tied up in Hunted, not to mention Sam thrown in a cage in The Benders. Alistair being tortured in On the Head of a Pin

[identity profile] juice817.livejournal.com 2009-07-03 03:36 am (UTC)(link)
Just to clarify, the mods did not remove your comment. I removed both of them for two reasons.

First, the warnings you listed do not apply in any way to the story I wrote. I'm frankly confused as to what story you read, because I do not recognize the fluffy love story I created in the tale of terror and subjugation you describe above. Clearly my understanding of the English language vastly differs from yours. (As a side note, I find it interesting that you would say here I firmly believe that an author should be absolutely free to write their metadata any way they please, with or without warnings, with or without details and yet you tried to add warnings to my story without any attempt to contact me first to discuss it.)

Second, I have the right to warn or not warn on my own story as I see fit. In addition, it is the policy of the mods of [livejournal.com profile] spn_j2_bigbang to allow authors to warn or not warn as they see fit. Simply put, you had no right to attempt to impose additional warnings on my story, in my post.

Clearly, I cannot stop you from posting your completely skewed misinterpretation of my story in your own journal, nor can I prevent you from attaching erroneous and misleading tags to it on del.icio.us. But I can and will stop you from attaching those same misconceptions to the story itself, or any posts I make in any community about it.
ext_14375: (Bear This)

CRITICAL READING: YOU ARE DOING IT WRONG

[identity profile] obsessed1.livejournal.com 2009-07-03 04:19 am (UTC)(link)
You know, normally I would go anon rather than risk the wank, but there have been enough anon comments already. I'll own this.

Extrapolating feminist ideals from a homosexual romance story is not remotely a new concept, yet I can't help thinking that you probably should have bothered to actually read the text as presented first before making erroneous conclusions.

As one of the people who participated in the writing and beta process of this story as a sounding board and pseudo therapist, I'm still not sure you and I are even talking about the same story. As was pointed out above, the story is told exclusively from Jensen's point of view, and in your (radically incorrect) interpretaion, Jensen is the "victim" rather than the abuser. In addition, the part you specifically isolate as "scary, scary stuff" was incorrectly referenced, missing large chunks of context (Jensen had a few beers too many and went to Jared's tee pee on his own, where he drunkenly admitted his feelings before passing out. The following morning, Jared first checked that Jensen wasn't hungover - he wasn't - and then pinned him down to keep him from running and asked him to repeat what he had said the night before. It wasn't until after Jensen admitted his feelings that Jared kissed him, an action that was both consensual and welcome on Jensen's part.). The very context you so conveniently missed while you were supposedly reading through your fingers proves your statements false.

And, honestly, if you thought it was so horrifying, why on Earth did you keep reading?

But then again, you are entitled to your own interpretation of the story as you see fit, just as the author is entitled to present the story as she deems appropriate, without your ham-handed attempts to impose inappropriate warnings. Don't lay the horrors of your early childhood playdates/arranged marriage attempts by Machiavellian parental figures at the feet of this story, because they really do NOT belong there. If you're going to make a long critique on a story where you have taken something wildly different from the obviously intended message, you must support your statements with quotations not only from the story, but with reputable outside sources as well. Otherwise you accomplish little more than blowing hot air.

[identity profile] evilsam-girl.livejournal.com 2009-07-04 02:19 am (UTC)(link)
I'm sorry but your condesending attitude and lame attempt to mock the very real issues brought up in the warnings vs. no warnings debate shows all of fandom how much of an ignoramous you really are.

I've got no problem with you being anti-warnings, that is your right, but to use [livejournal.com profile] juice817's story as some sort of sick way to prove your viewpoint is wrong. You should have picked a story that had real potential triggers instead of a fluffy piece of J2 fanfiction - your point would have been better argued.

[identity profile] ficangel.livejournal.com 2009-07-05 01:12 am (UTC)(link)
I just wanted to say, you have been absolutely nothing but classy--far more than was actually required of you--in your responses to the dogpiling.

[identity profile] carose59.livejournal.com 2009-07-05 03:06 pm (UTC)(link)
I find your analysis fascinating because it sounds very much how I would have interpreted the story.

I tried to watch "Runaway Bride," and only made it through a half hour of it because I was so disturbed by the way Julia Roberts's family and friends sold her out to Richard Gere, who they knew was there to write humiliating things about her. I got so upset about her being betrayed by her family that way, I started crying and ranting at the TV. My girlfriend offered to turn it off, but I went out to the kitchen to wash dishes so she could keep watching it.

It's a light, fluffy movie, right? That's what everybody says. But's like merangue on a slice of betrayal. Most people only see the merangue, and those of us who see the betrayal look a little nuts when we react to it.

And don't even get me started on "You've Got Mail." *g*

[identity profile] martita-r-c.livejournal.com 2010-01-24 01:45 am (UTC)(link)
Coming in sideways and at such a late time, I just want to tell you how much respect and admiration I have for the way you have handled the dogpiling of your post, and the repulsive namecalling you've been subjected too. I doubt, no, I /i/know/i/ I would have lost my temper in public and cried in private. Kudos to you.

(Got here via-via while reading what I could find on warning-wank)