Yesterday, I went back and reread the post where the discussion I mention took place. There were many new comments, and I had to laugh because there was some serious xenophobia apologia and derailing going on, and I didn't even care, except in a being fascinated by a train-wreck kind of thing.
The particular comment repulsed and horrified me because it was from a would-be ally. They were clearly unaware of displaying their own privilege, and I did not expect a comment like that from someone like them.
In case you're not wondering why the comment was particularly horrifying, but more why it was horrifying at all, I'll break it down for you. I hope you'll be patient with me for saying some really obvious stuff I know you know, it's just so I can line it all up neatly.
The debate was about tension between Westerners and Easterners, and especially Americans and Russians. LJ users from the former Eastern Bloc are very tired of being simultaneously vilified and erased in English language LJ+clones journals.
In real life Slavs living in Germanic, Latin and Greek countries have to deal with a lot of racist shit. Some of them pass until they have to use their name, or reveal that they speak with an accent, but a lot of them don't. Europeans don't think white ethnic groups look alike.
The idea of white privilege is typical of melting pot societies, such as in the Americas. In Europe, there is no "white ethnic group", in Africa there is no "black ethnic group", in Asia there is no "Asian ethnic group". Yes, there is a complex kyriarchy, and some ethnic groups are "more like us" and some are "less like us" in any given country, and I certainly don't mean to dismiss or simplify that. But it remains incredibly America-centric to talk of "white privilege".
(And that's not even getting into the idea that all people who identify as Russian are white, or that only the white Russians are important enough to mention. They're not.)
On the internet we all look alike, so unless we identify ourselves as a member of an unprivileged group we get treated to everyone's unfiltered privileged shit, of the sort they wouldn't say if they were physically in a room with us.
So the Eastern European LJers were rightfully getting very, very tired of having Westerners, especially Americans, pretend like English language LJ+clones journals were only for Americans, and only Americans ever participated or lurked here.
This would-be ally, wanting to show their condemnation of xenophobia, and also put it into a bit of perspective, demonstrated very clearly that they were unable to grasp the idea that English language LJ+clones is for people from all over the world, not for North Americans only. The discussion was not about ethnic tension within North American countries, it was about erasing and silencing Eastern Europeans, and she was actively doing that very thing.
I hope that was an okay explanation, but feel free to ask for more clarification. I'm a Westerner myself, though, and don't have the best grasp on all this.
ETA: Sorry, I overlooked this part: As you said, it's relevant to consider the interaction between actual ethnicity and perceived ethnicity. So this seems a valid observation to me.
Relevant for Canada and the U.S. Valid for Canada and the U.S.
no subject
The particular comment repulsed and horrified me because it was from a would-be ally. They were clearly unaware of displaying their own privilege, and I did not expect a comment like that from someone like them.
In case you're not wondering why the comment was particularly horrifying, but more why it was horrifying at all, I'll break it down for you. I hope you'll be patient with me for saying some really obvious stuff I know you know, it's just so I can line it all up neatly.
The debate was about tension between Westerners and Easterners, and especially Americans and Russians. LJ users from the former Eastern Bloc are very tired of being simultaneously vilified and erased in English language LJ+clones journals.
In real life Slavs living in Germanic, Latin and Greek countries have to deal with a lot of racist shit. Some of them pass until they have to use their name, or reveal that they speak with an accent, but a lot of them don't. Europeans don't think white ethnic groups look alike.
The idea of white privilege is typical of melting pot societies, such as in the Americas. In Europe, there is no "white ethnic group", in Africa there is no "black ethnic group", in Asia there is no "Asian ethnic group". Yes, there is a complex kyriarchy, and some ethnic groups are "more like us" and some are "less like us" in any given country, and I certainly don't mean to dismiss or simplify that. But it remains incredibly America-centric to talk of "white privilege".
(And that's not even getting into the idea that all people who identify as Russian are white, or that only the white Russians are important enough to mention. They're not.)
On the internet we all look alike, so unless we identify ourselves as a member of an unprivileged group we get treated to everyone's unfiltered privileged shit, of the sort they wouldn't say if they were physically in a room with us.
So the Eastern European LJers were rightfully getting very, very tired of having Westerners, especially Americans, pretend like English language LJ+clones journals were only for Americans, and only Americans ever participated or lurked here.
This would-be ally, wanting to show their condemnation of xenophobia, and also put it into a bit of perspective, demonstrated very clearly that they were unable to grasp the idea that English language LJ+clones is for people from all over the world, not for North Americans only. The discussion was not about ethnic tension within North American countries, it was about erasing and silencing Eastern Europeans, and she was actively doing that very thing.
I hope that was an okay explanation, but feel free to ask for more clarification. I'm a Westerner myself, though, and don't have the best grasp on all this.
ETA: Sorry, I overlooked this part:
As you said, it's relevant to consider the interaction between actual ethnicity and perceived ethnicity. So this seems a valid observation to me.
Relevant for Canada and the U.S. Valid for Canada and the U.S.